U20 Class Member's Forum

General Category => U20 General Discussion => Topic started by: Michael Eisenberg on June 04, 2012, 02:25:56 AM

Title: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Michael Eisenberg on June 04, 2012, 02:25:56 AM
I will be ordering a replacement carbon mast for Toon Town next week. This would be the time for anyone that wants a carbon mast to piggy back on my order.
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Billy Ellis on June 04, 2012, 08:42:51 AM
What happened to your original carbon rig?
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Keith Ziegler on June 04, 2012, 12:31:10 PM
Are you ordering a C spar?
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Michael Eisenberg on June 04, 2012, 01:54:07 PM
I raced the Delta Ditch run Satutday. A low front went through with 20-25 knot forecast. As we approached the Antioch Channel, the wind went to 30 knots. We were planing at 18-20 with the large PHRF spinnaker when we were hit by a puff that was at least in the high 30s. The boat rapidly accelerated but then buried the bow. The green water coming over the deck was at least a foot tall and filled the cockpit to above deck height. The water was coming in faster than it could drain out of the transom. I had the top hatch cover in place, but not the vertical hatch cover. The cabin inside rapidly filled with water to over a foot high, and only then did the boat rapidly decelerate. At that point the mast vaporized above the spreaders. The explosive shock delaminated everything. The mainsail luff track blew off the mast, the goose neck laminated mount ripped off, the spreaders ripped off, and the middle of the mast went over the bow. Until the explosive failure, the mast never went out of column. I had the shrouds at maximum tension. The shrouds were all intact, the deck hardware undamaged, and the shroud anchor points in the mast were all undamaged.  I still don't understand how the lower shrouds which were still intact allowed the bottom half of the mast to go forward over the bow without actually breaking a shroud.  The 3 boats nearest to me also lost their rigs. Anyway, I talked to my insurance agent, and they'll pay 100% of whatever it takes to get a replacement mast, and they'll replace the sails less 1 years depreciation.
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Chris Chambers on June 04, 2012, 03:01:30 PM
Do you remember if you stuck the back of a wave or do you think that the load just got to big up in the rig and then she started to pitch pole?
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Michael Eisenberg on June 04, 2012, 03:13:07 PM
It was an inland channel, and the waves were less than 1 foot. I just saw pictures of other boats in the same area just submarining.  Toon Town never really went bow down by very much. It just seemed to get sucked down as the water rushed over the deck
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Keith Ziegler on June 04, 2012, 05:54:47 PM
We had the same conditions this past weekend in the Bayview One Design where we were going done wind at some off the chart speed when I looked back and saw a huge puff and no one with a chute up and had my crew take mine down. Oh wait there was one guy who put his up and lost his aluminum rig.
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Brad Boston on June 04, 2012, 06:46:53 PM
Hey Michael,

How tight do you run your lower shrouds?
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Michael Eisenberg on June 04, 2012, 06:57:02 PM
I normally run them loose. But knowing this was a high speed down wind event, I ran full upper pressure, than tightened the lowers to keep the mast only slightly bent. I didn't check the tension. As it was, when the loads picked up the forestay was quite loose
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Brad Boston on June 04, 2012, 07:14:55 PM
OK,

I was just wondering.. I also sail with mine really loose, Max would be around 7 on the guage....
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Billy Ellis on June 04, 2012, 09:23:14 PM
Now that's how to get a free carbon boom:-) I'll say one  thing, the forecast is 25+ and ur in the ditch with the "big kite"? You've got some stones!
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Don Corey on June 05, 2012, 02:15:28 AM
Just one question for you Michael:  Where were you and the crew positioned when this occured?
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Michael Eisenberg on June 05, 2012, 02:30:09 AM
I was leaning against the corner of the rear stanchion (gripping the tiller in the middle was difficult, and I had no leverage with the extension).  The crew was stacked up next to me. The forward crew was having difficulty describing the pressure of a wall of green water hitting you at 20 knots. She said it was no wonder that 5 crew were cleaned of the deck of Low Speed Chase in the Farralones race.
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Chris Chambers on June 05, 2012, 03:59:37 AM
Sounds like you hit the limits of the design, in that much breeze.  Brad - could you attempt a save by raising the tack?
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Michael Eisenberg on June 05, 2012, 06:17:09 AM
Race Report:

http://www.pressure-drop.us/forums/showthread.php?2498-Ditch-Run/page13
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Chuck Ballew on June 05, 2012, 05:33:59 PM
Sounds like an exciting weekend. Sorry for the lost of your rig Michael. We had some nice wind Sunday. During our third race, we couldn't keep the boat on her feet, gibing in 20-25 knots of breeze. One of the crew remembers tightening the vang to depower going upwind in the third, and not releasing during our run. I was at a lost why we were broaching, but guess the vang sheeting would explain it.
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Michael Eisenberg on June 08, 2012, 12:42:34 AM
Here is the current C-Tech carbon mast price. Purchased in quantity of 1 to 4, the complete mast is $7666 plus shipping and local taxes.  On a quantity 5 basis, the mast costs $6860.  I'm ordering a mast, but if 4 more of you want to order now, it will save everyone a little money.  I am going to air freight my mast for about $1000, but if we can put an order together, I'll throw it on a ship to help everyone save some money.  I'm waiting on the price for slow boat shipping and crating.
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Michael Eisenberg on June 08, 2012, 04:42:11 AM
Shipping rates via sea is $903 USD.  That includes wooden crating.  The price is the same whether it is one mast or five.  Fuel and BAD surcharges are extra (whatever that means....)
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Billy Ellis on June 08, 2012, 12:56:51 PM
I don't mean to a wrench into the works ( but I am) at that price should we look at a domestic supplier? We originally paid a little over 5 including shipping. Also have you contacted Albert? I thought he had purchased an extra spar for future sale.
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Gregg Henning on June 08, 2012, 03:59:19 PM
All,

Albert has sold all of the masts.  He may have some spare parts.  He has not communicated with the Ultimate 20 class in quite some time.

Richard Hunt has been working on a US Carbon Rig.  I do not know how far along in the process he is.  You could check with him.

Gregg
Title: Re: Carbon Mast Order
Post by: Michael Eisenberg on June 09, 2012, 12:57:46 AM
I think I just figured out the reason the price that was quoted looked so high.  It is in NZD.  The converted price for one mast is $5906 USD.  The converted price on the 5 plus discount is $5277.  That's a bit more palatable.